Still worried about my timing

[Julius24]

Hi guys! After recording some sessions with a flamenco-pop group i noticed that i need to keep focused on my tempo. The songs feel mostly just right and the guys are happy in general, but i KNOW that in order to make the next step i need to improve my timing. I?m really obsesed. I would REALLY like to hear everyone?s approach (especially the greats Erksoman, Steve, Daz, Andy, Pete, etc) to perfect timing (if that really exist).
One exercise that i found really helpful is to set the click at 60 or less and play all subdivisions... I mean, quartes, eights, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 y 8 without stoping. I think it?s pretty hard to keep it going -especially when switching from 4 to 5 and 6 to 7-.
Any tips on that topic will be great. I?m trying to just being able to play 5 minutes of music with the right tempo without feeling nothing weird...
Thanks!

[palmerlouie]

one very important thing to do is WHATVER you practice, practice it with a metronome.

having a click going ALL the time is great and after a few weeks you'll notice the difference.

do exercises to it, beats, fills, soloing....bla bla.

I have been teaching for about a year now,,,,,more students now than ever and its amazing how their previous teachers didnt even mention a click. the kid knocks out all his favourite beats and fills on the 1st lesson to show me what he can do.....and then i say, "ok play 8th notes to this click"...... NO CLUE....and i mean, no clue.

This is the most important part of drumming, yet these intermediate players werent taught! crazy.

[Julius24]

Wow Palmer! Funny about guys without knowing about a click... i used it ALL the time... In fact, when i?m on my way to work (on the bus) i plug the metronome and keep claping my hands...
I realized something... Sometimes I turn off the volume of the click and start claping my hands just watching the light signs... Then i hide the click and i only can keep a couple of bars ON TIME, after that if i move a little when i look the click again, i?m lost... know what i mean?
Maybe that?s the MOST difficult lesson i ever found on my drumming life... [img]confused.gif[/img]

[Dazzler]

Good advice Louie. It is so important to have good solid time and it's something that even now, I get paranoid about! The tendancy is to rush a fill into a chorus as you get excited! You can also drag verse sections if you're not careful!

What you're doing by playing 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 etc beats in every quarter not is excellent and will really give you a sense of the space and subdivisions between the beats. That's one excercise is the Unreel book and it's bloody hard, especially going from 5 to 6 to 7 as you said!

Another good tip is to try and get away from having the click on every quarter note and instead, try putting it on beats 2&4 with your snare. Play on this for a while until it is really locked in, then have the click on beats 1&3. This will feel strange to start, as if the beat has got quicker, but it is just your perception!

Then try and slow the click right down so it is only on the first beat of every bar, forcing you to really nail every note in between. Then put it only on beat 2, then 3, then 4. Here, we are really putting the microscope on the spaces between the notes and indeed the beats between the bars. By slowing the click down so it is only on one beat, we're taking away the security of having on every quarter note.

Also, record yourself practicing. Play for example 7 bars of time with a bar fill. Do this a few times without a click and listen back. How did it feel? Was the groove sitting? Was the fill rushing? Now do it to a click and check that out. Again, was it all in time? If it was, did it feel stiff in any way because you had the click on? Could it be more relaxed?

Having good time for me, is an ongoing process and I won't lie to you, at the moment I'm doing a load of big corporate pop gigs for Christmas and occasionally I get a look from the MD when things go a bit wobbly!! It is our perception of how good our time is that can go wrong too and what we may consider to be sitting and grooving comfortably, can sound out of time to other players!

Having said all this, it is really important to note that having a song/piece be in time and feel good is a COLLECTIVE RESPONSIBILITY and EACH MEMBER of the band has their duty to have good time. I hate it when band members blame the drummer for their own failings. If we spend hours every day with a click, why can't the keyboard player or the guitarist?

Good luck and have fun!!

[img]smile.gif[/img]

[peter c]

OK. I'm stupid.

When I was a kid, I was all over the
place, with my time. Even after work-
ing with a 'nome', I found that I was
solid during verses OR chorus' BUT
I rushed in the transitions (fills
etc.). Then, I saw Steve Gadd.

Watching Steve's left heel and heavy
quarter-note emphasis reminded me of
something that a lot of great players
did, which is use their heels for refer-
ence. I don't mean to make something
so simple sound so profound but it is
what helped me lock in more.

The quarter note is the most important
of the notes.

My .02

[img]cool.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 17, 2004 11:47 AM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>

[shedder]

another cool way is to practice with the click as all the upbeat 16ths. trying to really get your bass syncopation locked in with those upbeats.

[cjbdrm]

This is something I'm still working on, too. I think there are no shortcuts. You just have to put the time in...

I was the same way: fast click, slow click, less subdivisions, more subdivisions, etc? Is it more subdivisions so you get more immediate feedback or less so you have more concentration? You see, they're both good. I think that as long as you're spending time with the metronome(or sequenced music, too by the way) and logging the hours, it's a slow process, but your time will improve.

It's also just as important to work on your time without a metronome...you can improve your time, just by an increased awareness and concentration about the time. Like on a gig...I've been on gigs before where I'm so focused on the time that I improve it. For whatever reason- maybe a trio gig with a piano player who plays a lot of ballads and you're playing brushes...and at the end of the gig your senses are so sharp because you were concentrating so intently on the time...and you realize it the next time you sit down to play and you just feel stronger...

A reality check may be in order as well(applying to everyone). Calculate how many hours you've spent on the instrument and compare it to someone who's time you admire- like Weckl or Gadd. Do the math, count the hours. Let's for argument sake say you wished your time was as good as Weckl's was when he was 24. Continuing, we'll say that Dave started playing at around age 8 and played the drums an average of 30 hours a week up until he began getting serious gigs while living in NYC, let's say age 24. That's 30 hours x 52 weeks x 16 years. (That's probably a close estimate, all things considered- but of course there's margin for error and I'm just trying to prove a point here). That's 25,000 hours. Of course his time his good. Then you would ask yourself how many hours you've put in and compare.

I'm convinced you have to put the time in.

[XNavyDrummer]

Working with the metronome/drum machine is a must. Also, working without it while examining your timing is also crucial.

Weckl's time by physical motion of your limbs has been really valuable for me. Where your limbs are acting like a metronome/pendulum, if you will. So, when others in the band rush or drag it conflicts with the natural timing of your own motion. Basically, this means that if you keep your hands and arms moving in a consistent flowing motion your timing will be more consistent. See Dave's video or Billy Wards stuff for more on this.

[peter c]

Andy - That reminded me of a time,
not too long ago, when we were hav-
ing monitor problems and the guitar-
ist said to the gust bassist, "I
watch his left foot."

This 'motion idea' works.

[img]cool.gif[/img]

[Anders Baarts]

I see what you mean, Rudy_Ment. I've tryed a gig like that, and it's very frustrating when tacet for a bar or TWO, with no help (click) what so ever. It's especially frustrating when you don't know the songs/arr. It would be fairly "easier" if one had the opportunity to practice the arr. BEFORE playing the tunes live.

I once had a crazy gig (top 40 more or less), where I had to play drums with already recorded drums (midi - like the ones for kareoke!) - I mean ALL of the drums where there (incl. fills!), and with no rehearsals what so ever, and not knowing what song to be up next at any time!
(The gig was a crazy guitarist/sax player that hired a keybordist and I, because it would look funny if the two of them played with drums coming out of the speakers, but no one to "play" the drums. My drums weren't miked, so I guess it sounded "different". Thinking about it now, I could just have "mimed" the drums, but being very entusiastic about the gig, I tried to nail all of the songs - which went pretty well!)

Although the money for this 14 days gig was good, I'll never do this kind again - mostly because I'm not giving the "music" anything by playing on top of recorded drums!